Once again you have touched on a topic that I have written about and agree with fully.

I wrote this back in July: http://retiredat21.com/people-are-generally-useless/

I was given a great quote "the masses are asses"

Deep breath.

Dean

YES!

The same situation occurred with me a few years back.
I then realized that many people are "freebie shoppers".
I re-set my strategy to overcome this problem.

Yep, their "stupid-ness lies,as well, in their not going ahead and accepting this brilliant set of information, then going on to its utilization in their business.

For the record I did NOT order a "free" CD but I will tell you where it DIDN'T state there would be a recurring charge:

On the order page.

I noticed the forced continuity on the sales page, but saw no mention of a recurring charge on the order page. Sent Keith an email and promptly got a reply confirming the recurring charge.

If you didn't order a "free" CD, what did you order?

LOL, how many places does the average person need to see a recurring charge notification? Currently, it's listed in 3 places.

Woody

I really am surprised by this post!

Tell me what is the difference between these two scenarios?

Scenario 1:
Buy our recurring billing audio CDs for $20/month. This will be a great benefit to you. You will learn lots. It will only cost $20/month, and you'll get great value. $20/month

Bonus #3: We'll send you a free BONUS CD right now with amazing 'inside' info to get started, and you'll get your first paid CD shortly as well.

Scenario #2:
Get our free Marketing knowledge CD right now. Only pay shipping/handling. Lots of great info on this free CD. You'll get your new informative free CD sent out to your door at no charge right away. It will be great for you and you'll learn a TON of 'inside' knowledge.

Bonus #3: We'll also use the credit card info you submit for your shipping to enroll you in a $20/month recurring billing club for more CDs. They will be great too. Honestly.

The end result to the consumer is the same. It is important to notice that the end result is identical (in theory). In practice #2 will probably get more takers initially on the freebie.

So what is the difference between the two scenarios? #2 will generate more complaints and refund requests. Why? People want things for free. Why? They're cheap! They're also lazy about reading details. Why do you think orders come in on sales pages in under 30 seconds from launch? Speed readers? Nope! Stupidity. Duhhh. Then they realize they were stupid, should have read the details and get ticked off (probably mostly at themselves for being stupid), but they take it out on the marketer.

Don't want that…quit whining and don't use scenario #2.

Since claim to know that people are stupid and will complain about the method you used for marketing, then shut up about it when they do complain…you already knew it was coming.

Move on.

If it was profitable - quit complaining. If it wasn't profitable - quit blaming the consumer for not liking your marketing methods and find another method that works better!

Shit. This was one of the most pansy assed complaining posts I've seen in a long time.

It is like going out and getting totally wasted at the bar and then blaming the hardness of the concrete sidewalk for the pain in your head after you pass out walking home. Boo fucking hoo.

Like your blog. Read it daily.

Cheers,
Eric

Eric,

I love your comment.

But frankly, it's a numbers game so scenerio 2 wins.

Woody

PS - ROFL, I gotta remember this line, 'Shit. This was one of the most pansy assed complaining posts I've seen in a long time.'

Ok, I feel that I need to share something. I wasn't planning on this at this point but why the hell not.

I have a long list of topics to write about over the coming days.

But when I'm getting bored and wish to stir up comments (and controversy), I like to post 'Rants' that stir emotion and get YOU posting comments.

It always works.

This is today's lesson.

Woody

People ARE idiots. It might be information overload too.

True story happened to me last week at HomeDespot:
(at delivery desk)

Me: 'Hey, I want delivery.'
Worker: 'SORRY, we can't do it until FRIDAY! Nothing open until then…at all.'

(me thinking: well tomorrow is Friday & a week from now is another Friday, I don't really care..either is fine.)

Me: 'Friday is fine.'
Worker: (In shock staring at me) 'Ok, so FRIDAY!?'
Me: 'Yes. Just out of curiousity, tomorrow is Friday, right?'
Worker:(2 second pause, eyes light up) 'Yes!'
Me: 'OK, here is my money.'
Worker: (looking at me like I'm a genius): 'OK! Bye Sir!'
Me:(shakes head & leaves.)

This one can apply for any Retailer, not just online Marketers. Have you ever been by the Customer Service counter at WalMart? The retailers build all the refunds into the price. I/M should know this and build the hassle into the recurring monthly fee, as with this situation.

OK so, stop and compute…1000 free CDs … 250 BS gripes and refunds. That leaves 750 happy with a monthly $20.00 each for $1500/ Mo. on a residual basis. Add to this the possibility of backend sales and you have a nice business.

David

Hi Woody,

I agree that in most cases #2 will probably work out for the better - and usually in a number of ways.

At a minimum I'm sure #2 produces more contacts that can then be hit with backend stuff, which in then will produce more than #1 even if it does create more complaints from whiners.

Point to remember though is that if complaints are going to bother you (the 'generic you', not the 'you woody') you'll probably get lots more with #2.

Yes, people are stupid….
I had a student come to me the other day and said
I'm getting nothing done.
I can't study, all I do is watch TV when I get home.
I'm not learning anything and it is really hard.
What can you do to help me?

Now I kept the obvious response to myself. I'm not sure he'd have understood the subtlty of handing him a pair of scissors and telling him the solution was to choose between gouging his eyes out or cutting the TV cable.

Instead I just asked him to leave and quit wasting my time as well as his. He was shocked…but he left.

Thank GOD for these special moments in life!

Cheers,
Eric

Here's an easy solution for you Woody — stop selling to idiots!

Forced continuity is sooooo 1998. Selling to internet marketers is sooooo 2003.

Create a system where they BEG you to get into your club. Where they CHASE you to come to your events. Where they ask permission to throw money at you.

Serve 99 premier clients at $10,000 a year rather than 1900 knuckleheads who are wasting oxygen….

It's NEVER the customer!
It's the "offer"

Woody, you basically saw what happens when something in the offer or the list being marketed to was defective. Defective as in plain ol wrong.

Masses speak and marketers tweak.
So change your (keith's) offer, test it, learn from The Video Professor etc and see when and what went wrong.

The big picture is NOT that this is a numbers game. This is purely a moronic statement made by uncaring con artists taking newbees for a ride (comment was made by someone on this thread)

The BIG picture is how to create a win win offer where you make lots of money and in turn, deliver massive value to the people who have entrusted you with their money.

Now. If you did deliver value, then segment your list better and get the freebie seekers off the list.
– Knowing you and the amazing value you deliver, I'd imagine it was a segmentation problem. Easily fixed.

Could also be the proliferation of the BS "Free CD" offers that charge people 6 bucks for a "FREE" CD (which basically covers the cost of the mailing and CD costs and then some)- Not sure about you, but to me, Free is Free.
Just ordered a FREE bag of Purina dog food for my aging dog and guess what, GOT A FREE BAG and have receieved lots of Back End Coupons to buy more… and I've done so.

NOW THAT'S A GOOD OFFER
MADE TO A WELL SEGMENTED AUDIENCE
WITH A GREAT BACKEND
…. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, AN HONEST OFFER.

"Masses" will dwindle and will move away from marketers who treat them like crap and cheat them for pennies.

Forced continuity is only good when the forcee is in love with the crap being shoved down their credit cards.. for example… Acne creams, diet products, niche newsletters etc.

Sorry about the longggggggggggggg posting.
Just thought to speak out for the "masses"

Ed

This is AWESOME and exactly what I was wanting.

People, THESE are marketing lessons.

Look at how this thread has formed and take note.

I'm not kidding.

Woody

Another one for marketers out there:

Actually state what you are selling. I can't figure out the offer on 1/2 the salesletters I visit these days.

First, WTF you are selling (eg: CDs, Newsletter, Membership site, Software, Ebook, Videos, Audios)?

Then, show how cool it is.

An entire site saying: "If you can XYZ, then you can ABC…" does little if I don't know what you are (get this) actually selling.

The whole world's gone crazy.

And, I'm feeling a little left out because you guys didn't invite me to come along.

I suppose I should chime in here since we are talking about my offer.

First, I agree that the positioning was very poor. Good product, great backend, horrible positioning.

The market was all wrong. This was meant for people that were serious about making money online, not those WANTING to make money online. Big difference and I learned my lesson there.

As a result, I've changed the forced cont from forced to optin at checkout. Still getting a 50% optin on that.

I have 70 CD's left in stock and once gone, this offer will end.

The NHB audio of the month will be a stand alone offer… I had this thought before and appreciate the person that commented on that.

Hey, this was a big test and overall went well. I think Woody is a bit emotional and just needs to chalk it up to what it is… something we tried.

Thank you for listening,

Keith

On the bright side, at least we know why so many people don't/can't make money online: because they ARE idiots!

And Ed, hate to break it to you, but sometimes….oftentimes in fact, it IS the customer.

I had to laugh at Eric's first post. Now that's keepin' it real. lol

I have a very low tolerance for stupid people. That's the great thing about working online, you don't actually have be face to face with these people who make you want to reach out and shake the living crap out of them.

Denise

I got the CD, and got the second one too. Then I cancelled.

Yeah, I was annoyed with the forced continuity, but I actually cancelled because the second CD was poor quality. I did not ask for a refund, but figured why spend $20 a month for low quality rambling phone calls from 2006.

Donna,

Huh, 2006? Apparently you are living in a different year.

Keith

You can go to Wal-mart or the DMV for an accurate cross-section of the masses. This is what the American diet was designed for (notice you don't see people who look like mutant variants at the health food store).

Are the masses stupid? You're not even dealing with the masses Woody - you're dealing with the cream of the masses and that's a damn sad statement indeed.

Well Woody,

I think you are assuming that people actually READ!

They don't.

Hence why I like to make videos instead.

Reading can blow!

J-Mo